Tuesday, October 21, 2025
Viacheslav Roi: Unions can’t speak with state on equal rights without unity
Ahmetov plants employees can’t be worried about his private state. But we have to worry about the entrepreneurs of small and medium business because of them the welfare of employees depends…
Nowadays Ukraine is being on the threshold of major economic reforms. At least, it declared the President and the government. Almost the most weighty part of the reforms should be the changes in terms of doing small and medium business. What kind of mood in the eve of these changes in trade unions – is the topic of conversation with Viacheslav Roi, the Chairman of the Federation of trade unions of workers in small and medium business.
Mr. Viacheslav, please specify: whose interests your Federation represents and protects – the entrepreneurs or wage-earners?
First of all – the employees. And also, so-called “self-employed”, that is, people who are both owners and only employees of their business. And also we represent the owners of small enterprises, which simultaneously work on it. Finally, we’re not indifferent to the material fell of entrepreneurs which give the opportunity to work for some tens of people. In case their business “have burnt” – our employees would be on the street without a job. But in Ukraine most of all “have been burnt” exactly small and medium enterprises. That’s, the employees of steel plant can afford yourselves not to worry about the private state of Renat Ahmetov, but we have to worry about our entrepreneurs. It’s rather tight dependence between the well-being of owners and wage-earners of small and medium business.
Therefore, you should have a clear position on those laws and legislations, which formulate the conditions of such business?
Undoubtedly, we have the position, except the clearness, which you probably have in a mind.
Explain, please, because your words “no clear position” have strangely sound…
I explain. Our clear attitude to the specific laws, legislations or normative acts directly depends from the clearness of these laws, legislations and normative acts. To my mind, it’s obviously that the legal system as a whole concerning terms of doing business and labor conditions of employees is very abundantly – from Labor and Tax Codes to self-contained normative acts of different ministries, departments and self-governing bodies. All these laws and acts are ill-matched and are not the organic system. And I can also add the variety of formal and informal actions of the government and employers, which directly contradict to the current and complete legislation and at the same time have a strong impact on business.
For example?
For example, the bribes to officials. In such conditions it’s rather difficult to give a categorical assessment on a particular law or legislation, because it has never kept an answer on interested employees questions.
For example, the deputies on opposition such as S.Terehin, N.Korolyovskaya and S.Sobolev suggest the 5 –year tax vacation for small and medium business. It’s very good. The Deputy Head of State Tax Administration O.Lubchenko promises that in nearest time the moratorium on tax audits of small business should be launched. It’s also not bad. In principal, we are not against. But we are interested in answer on question: where the guarantee that the entrepreneur, who received additional profit from these benefits, will share this income with his employees, but not to put it in his pocket? I know the rule that the process of small and medium business entrepreneurs becoming rich will cause the development of this same business, and as a consequence – new jobs and so on. I’m not going to deny this obvious truth, but still it’s rather general. But in our trade unions – the real people who wants the abovementioned guarantees. The ideal scheme: the government gives benefits to businessmen – those, in turn, enlarge profit, a part of which they give for their employees salary increasing or make it pure on 100% - the employees will get more reliable social protection, and in future – better pension. Everything is well and everybody is happy. But how can we force all employers to refuse from double accounting and pay only “white” salary? Today it’s namely interested the employee. More correctly, the strong supervision of tax inspectors and government officials in general! There is no another method and nobody suggests it. And how about “vacations” and “moratoriums”?
In addition to launching benefits for small and medium business owners we would like to see legislative guarantees for employees of these companies. But there no guarantees.
And one more danger. Who assures us that government officials, especially on those places, won’t invent for businessmen, who received tax benefits, some “re-registrations” or something like this and won’t take bribes more than in several times from them, motivating that you have more money now? Now I keep in my hands yesterday’s news (for the 8th of June) and cite: “The government sent for revision the legislation, which was worked out by the State Committee of Regulatory Policy and Entrepreneurship, and by which the responsibility of government officials of all levels for noncompliance of permit and regulatory legislation has been put. The bill provided that for the first violation on the government official a fine should be imposed at the rate of 5 salaries, and after the second one he should be debared of the right to work on public service for several years. This bill was resisted by the government officials, because according to it, every second government officials, including top executives, fall under the responsibility”. So, where is the clear government program which directs to fighting with corruption? Because, if this trouble continue in Ukraine in such a big scales, what will be the price of clearness of small and medium business legislation and our trade union’s clear position containing it? The corrupts will break any law.
You have remembered the State Committee? How can you evaluate the professional activity of it’s new chairman Michael Brodsky?
I, of course read his program article in “The Mirror of the week”. I think it’s a good article with presenting worth of thought, declaring good intentions by Mr.Brodsky. I sincerely wish him success, more over, that this intentions, in case of realization, certainly will help the small and medium business, and as a consequence it will also help members of our Federation of unions. However, as yet it’s only intentions. From the cited by me information, it’s well-seeing how difficult to realize them. So let’s see. By the way, in mentioned article Mr.Brodsky demonstrated how simplified taxation, which should be contributed small and medium business, does practically give nothing, and instead of this the big business actively uses it for paying less taxes. It’s also dealing with topic of clear attitude to the legislation in the sphere of small and medium business.
Mr. Viacheslav, generally you drawn cheerless and hopeless picture. Or, maybe, you, without government, will suggest holistic legislation together with the same holistic fighting with corruption?
Cheerless - maybe, hopeless – of course, no. According to the proposition to write laws and programs by myself, we can do it with turning out pockets, taking loans and deferring all union cases for later. If speak more seriously, the plot of the topic lies not in writing something. Because all written text should be approved as a law and provide it’s steady implementation. The trade unions can’t cope by themselves, it’s the case of government and the society as a whole. Of course, we do everything needed: suggest changes in legislation and persistently gain its adoption. The employees interests are provided with agreements in triangle “trade union-state-employers”. So far as interests of parties in triangle are often opposite, the positive result can be gained in tough, sometimes very tough negotiations. To defend its position, trade unions should be powerful. It takes place, where the employee have respectable salary and appropriate social protection. Nobody – neither state, nor employers – will put rights “on a saucer”.
Are trade unions week in Ukraine?
If Ukrainians are not satisfied with work conditions and payment for labor, it’s obviously, that trade unions are weaker than state and employers organizations. What are the reasons? The first reason is that we have weak civil society and trade unions can’t be strong, when organization of society gives to government organization. Another reason is that Ukrainian trade unions spend many efforts on rivalry between themselves. Because of it, we diminish ourselves. Thus, we really have not triangle, but the following scheme: “state-employers (big business)”, who solve their problems by unions.
So, the result: Ukraine would have an effective legislation in the sphere of entrepreneurship and employment relations as a whole when unions will converse with governance and employers on equal rights. They can do it when they will have equal position on such negotiations. The conflicts between independent unions and the Federation of unions of Ukraine can’t stop during all years of Ukrainian independence. Do you believe that they will stop? They must stop. Unions are eternal, they’ll never disappear. If current unions leaders can’t protect employees because of conflict between themselves, people will select other union’s leaders who can and are able to negotiate. The soviet times, when unions were only as a decoration, have been passed irrevocably. Democracy in Ukraine are being developed though very hardly.
Well, it will be tomorrow. But what is your current attitude to the Federation of Unions of Ukraine?
The Federation of Unions of Ukraine is the largest union federation in our country. Independent unions only want equitable relations. It’s not only our pleasure, but it’s also the requirement of the Article 36th of Constitution of Ukraine, in which an equality of rights of all unions has been declared. Unfortunately, the Federation of Unions of Ukraine not always follows it. The last case – an attempt of the Federation of Unions of Ukraine to withdraw the representatives of independent unions without permit from the boards of funds of mandatory state social insurance. Particularly, they want to eliminate from the Board of Fund of insurance against temporary loss of efficiency the representatives of our Federation, which has been protecting for 20 years the interests of employees of small and medium business. And this despite the fact that it is the employees of small businesses have the biggest problems with the hospital, rehabilitation, maternity leave, and so on.
Speaking about the constitutional norm of equality of rights of trade unions I want to pay attention to the new draft of Labour Code, which had been already in Parliament, and may be finally approved at this session of the Verkhovna Rada. The Labor Code - is the background for any union. I will not evaluate the whole project, because it is a thick book, and his full analysis is not for the interview. I’d just like to say that the topic of trade union concerns unity. The draft of Code includes the concept of "representative" and "unrepresentative" unions. That is, with jne of them employers must reckon, but with other – is not necessarily.
It is too sad that the Federation of Unions of Ukraine does not protest against this rule. It’s not difficult to understand their position…
You are right. We can understand it, but justify – no!..
I am in the trade union movement is not the first year, I led the All-Ukrainian Union of Public Sector Workers “Capital – Regions” since its inception - the12th of June in 1999, and since April of 2009 I was elected as a Chairman on the All-Ukrainian meeting of trade unions of Ukraine, where 44 all-ukrainian union organizations coordinate all their actions. in 1944 the nationwide trade union organizations. Over these years I was faced with the variety of disputes with the Federation of Unions of Ukraine (however, examples of effective cooperation also took place). But I’m sure that we must make arrangements if we really want to be trade unions, but not only verbally. We simply don’t have another way.
